Hunter Biden and America First host Nick Fuentes sat down with independent journalist Andrew Callaghan for a nearly three-hour conversation covering censorship, race, crime, online culture, Donald Trump, Israel, Iran, artificial intelligence and the future of American politics.
The conversation featured sharp disagreements, particularly over Fuentes’s past rhetoric and his views on race, but also revealed unexpected areas of common ground. Both men expressed concern about the power of technology companies, political corruption, the decline of community and the growing concentration of power among a small number of wealthy individuals.
The interview began with Callaghan asking why Fuentes wanted to participate. Fuentes said he believes he has been publicly reduced to the labels of “Nazi” and white supremacist and wanted an opportunity to clarify what he believes.
Fuentes said he does not consider himself hateful and argued that his Christian beliefs conflict with traditional Nazism. He acknowledged believing that race exists and can matter, but said he does not believe it completely defines a person. Biden challenged him by arguing that Fuentes’s own statements had helped create the public image he was now attempting to correct.
Fuentes responded that he entered politics during a period when online censorship and cancel culture were particularly aggressive. He said jokes, deliberately offensive humor and comments taken out of context were used by journalists and activist organizations to portray young right-wing figures as extremists.
He argued that removing people from major platforms did not eliminate their political beliefs. Instead, he said, it pushed them toward alternative platforms and more isolated political communities, where some became even more radical.
Biden agreed that deplatforming and debanking can be arbitrary and damaging. He described losing access to banking services before he had been charged with a crime and argued that a handful of technology companies now possess enormous power over ordinary life.
The two differed, however, on whether the central problem was political censorship or corporate profit. Biden argued that social-media companies benefit financially from anger, division and psychological harm. Fuentes said the censorship was also ideological, though he agreed that technology platforms had become essential institutions that could no longer be treated as ordinary private businesses.
Race, Crime and White Identity
The most contentious portion of the interview began when Callaghan described visiting a whites-only community in Arkansas and asked Fuentes why he had distanced himself from its founder.
Fuentes said the disagreement was personal but defended the broader desire among some white Americans to live in communities where the culture feels familiar. He compared that desire to ethnic enclaves found in major cities.
Biden and Callaghan challenged that comparison. They argued that many Black and immigrant neighborhoods were formed because segregation, housing discrimination and violence prevented residents from living elsewhere. Callaghan also questioned whether a single, unified “white culture” exists, noting the differences among Irish, Italian and other European-American communities.
The conversation expanded into a lengthy argument about white flight, the Civil Rights era, urban riots, crime, policing and racial discrimination.
Fuentes argued that violence and disorder in major cities contributed significantly to families leaving for the suburbs. He repeatedly pointed to carjackings, robberies, shootings and business closures in Chicago and other cities.
Biden accused Fuentes of treating Black people, immigrants and other minorities as explanations for the frustrations of young white Americans. Fuentes rejected that description and said his concern was crime rather than race, while acknowledging that the racial composition of offenders was part of what he believed people were afraid to discuss.
Biden responded that crime cannot be separated from the history of segregation, discrimination, poverty and unequal policing. He argued that Americans have repeatedly blamed newer or marginalized groups for social problems, including Irish and Catholic immigrants in earlier generations.
Neither man persuaded the other. Callaghan eventually redirected the discussion toward what he described as the collapse of community.
Loneliness and Community Collapse
Callaghan argued that fewer Americans participate in meaningful in-person communities and that the decline of local organizations, shared spaces and spontaneous social contact has increased loneliness and political hostility.
This became one of the clearest areas of agreement.
Biden said people need genuine, face-to-face connection rather than anonymous interaction online. He argued that wealthy corporations and technology platforms benefit from turning people into isolated consumers who shop alone, travel alone and spend more time looking at screens.
Fuentes described social dislocation as one of the greatest problems facing young people. He said school and college provide built-in communities, but many people graduate and find themselves limited to work, the gym and home.
He also connected isolation to political radicalization. People who feel unseen or disconnected, he argued, are more likely to search online for groups that offer identity, belonging and an explanation for why society appears broken.
Fuentes said his own removal from major social-media platforms worsened his personal isolation. For younger generations, he argued, being absent from Instagram and other mainstream platforms can make a person feel socially invisible.
Offensive Humor and Past Remarks
Biden repeatedly challenged Fuentes over Holocaust jokes, racial slurs and other statements he described as cruel and alienating.
Fuentes characterized much of his earlier rhetoric as “edgelording”—deliberately offensive humor intended to provoke a reaction. He said young people were attracted to it partly because they were tired of being lectured about what they were allowed to say.
Biden argued that the jokes were not harmless to people whose families had experienced antisemitism or the Holocaust. He said such remarks prevent listeners from hearing anything else Fuentes may have to say about censorship, community or political power.
Fuentes initially defended the humor as provocative rather than hateful. Later in the conversation, however, he acknowledged that it was “not the best approach” and said age had changed how he communicates.
He said he did not consider the change an apology or ideological moderation, but a clarification of views he believes he has held all along. He also said provocative humor had become less interesting because it was now common and predictable rather than rebellious.
Israel, Antisemitism and Iran
Callaghan asked how the political response to the October 7 attacks and the war in Gaza had influenced the online right.
Fuentes argued that the conflict exposed what he considers the Republican Party’s institutional loyalty to Israel. He said many voters who had supported an America First foreign policy began questioning why Republican leaders continued to defend Israeli priorities and the possibility of war with Iran.
Callaghan and Biden argued that Holocaust denial and rhetoric aimed broadly at Jewish people weakened legitimate criticism of the Israeli government. They said such statements allow supporters of Israel to portray all opposition to Israeli policy as antisemitic.
Fuentes acknowledged that some antisemitic voices had given Israel’s defenders additional ammunition, but argued that the debate could not be limited solely to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu or the Israeli government. He said political donations, media ownership and the activities of influential American supporters of Israel were also relevant.
Biden urged him to distinguish clearly between criticism of Israel, Zionism and Jewish people generally. Fuentes eventually said that Jewish Americans should be treated with dignity, respect and equal civil rights, and that his objection was directed at individuals he believes place the interests of another country ahead of the United States.
The discussion also turned to the war with Iran. Biden argued that previous presidents had resisted Israeli pressure to attack Iran because of the danger of a wider conflict, the importance of oil moving through the Strait of Hormuz and the difficulty of eliminating Iran’s nuclear program without a ground war.
He accused Trump of making unrealistic promises about Iran, Ukraine and other conflicts while refusing to accept responsibility when those promises failed.
Breaking With Donald Trump
Biden asked Fuentes why he had supported Trump despite Trump’s lack of a consistent ideological core.
Fuentes said Trump’s 2016 message was powerful because he presented himself as a wealthy outsider who could reject donors, challenge the media and place American interests first. Fuentes said many Republicans believed figures such as John McCain and Mitt Romney had been weak and ineffective, making Trump’s confrontational style attractive.
He acknowledged that Trump failed to fulfill major promises during his first term, including building the border wall, reducing foreign influence and avoiding new conflicts.
Fuentes said he supported Trump again in 2020 because conservatives feared vaccine mandates, prolonged COVID restrictions and intensified censorship under a Democratic administration. He also said the Biden administration was ultimately not as disastrous as many on the right had predicted.
By 2024, Fuentes said, he had withdrawn his support. He said he did not vote for Trump and advised his followers not to vote for him. He argued that Trump would not carry out mass deportations, finish the wall, release the Epstein files or avoid war with Iran.
Fuentes agreed with Biden’s description of Trump as nonideological, transactional and primarily concerned with himself. He said Trump’s support among younger America First voters was over and argued that Trump had redefined MAGA in a way that excluded many of the movement’s former supporters.
Fuentes also expressed concern about J.D. Vance’s relationship with technology investor Peter Thiel and the data company Palantir. He argued that Vance’s political career had been built through Thiel’s financial and professional support and warned that a future Vance administration could strengthen the influence of technology oligarchs.
Political Realignment
The conversation later moved toward the 2026 midterm elections and the 2028 presidential race.
Fuentes said he wanted Democrats to win the House so they could investigate corruption within the Trump administration. He predicted that 2028 could create an opportunity for outsider candidates on both the right and left.
The group also discussed Zohran Mamdani, economic populism, rent control and health care. Fuentes said he disliked some of Mamdani’s racial and cultural messaging but respected his energy and willingness to challenge wealthy interests.
Biden defended Mamdani’s economic agenda and argued that government programs had historically helped build the American middle class. The two found limited agreement that Americans should have access to a basic level of health coverage, although Fuentes stopped short of supporting a full single-payer system.
Addiction, COVID and Public Life
Near the end of the interview, the conversation became more personal.
Fuentes explained that he has never used alcohol or drugs because addiction had devastated members of his family. He said he valued maintaining control of his mind and feared that he might possess an addictive personality.
Biden, who has spoken publicly about his own addiction, said he wanted to use his platform to reach people struggling with substance abuse and reduce the shame that prevents families from discussing it.
They also agreed that COVID-era isolation had seriously damaged young people by taking away school, sports, graduations and ordinary social development.
Neither man expressed much interest in running for office. Biden said his priority was helping people affected by addiction. Fuentes said running for office would force him to sacrifice the independence and authenticity he believes his current role requires.
Artificial Intelligence and the Closing Agreement
The final major subject was artificial intelligence.
Fuentes warned that the company that first controls artificial superintelligence could obtain unprecedented political and economic power. He said an AI system aligned with the interests of its creator could give a technology executive something resembling dictatorial authority.
Biden agreed that artificial intelligence could transform civilization and potentially produce enormous benefits, including medical breakthroughs. However, he argued that AI systems are built from knowledge created collectively by humanity and should not belong exclusively to a handful of corporations.
Both men said the financial and technological benefits of advanced AI should be shared more broadly. Fuentes compared it to both a strategic weapon and an economic commodity and said preventing concentrated control of AI could become one of the most important political issues of the coming years.
The interview concluded with both men emphasizing the importance of continuing to speak across political divisions.
Biden said he hoped Fuentes would recognize his humanity when speaking publicly in the future and promised to extend the same consideration in return.
Fuentes agreed, saying that despite their disagreements, both men loved the country and wanted it to succeed. He argued that recognizing the humanity of political opponents could provide a starting point for repairing a deeply divided society.